We are gradually dying of so many things there is limitless horizon for profit from our despair. While causes seem many, there is a primary underlying cause. A few species including man, became enzyme-deficient so their bodies can no longer create ascorbic from glucose. Ascorbic in sufficient dose-duration-context addresses nearly all of man's health issues. The illness-industries have "carefully looked away" for nearly a century. Put N=1 research into your own hands!

August 18, 2013

The Ascorbic in Liposomal C

Intraveneous Vitamin C Has Performed Miracles

Notes, Comments, Reviews, Tidbits, Trivias 

-- collected miscellany from around the web (and a few are my notes to friends) on Vitamin C. Some is just about AA, some is about venous C, some is about Lipo-C. This is just a 'drive by' speed-read search result on the topic designed to give me some clues for search out better details. No references.


Comment: When my daughter was 17, her new boyfriend gave her hepatitis. On a Monday, I took her to her pediatrician (who hadn't a clue). Based on her temp of 105 degrees and her butter yellow eyes, I asked that she test her for hepatitis. That's what she had. Her liver was in such bad shape that the doctor wanted to hospitalize her. I refused. By this time her former boyfriend was in the hospital himself. I brought her home and started giving her major doses of vit. C. She took it five times a day, 10 grams (not milligrams) each time. She must have really needed it; taking 50 grams a day gave her no side effects and she was on her feet in a week. The boy was in the hospital for six weeks and was a physical wreck when he finally got out. The Saturday after she had been diagnosed my daughter was well enough to have dinner with friends. On Monday I took her back to her doctor and discovered that her liver was nearly normal. I think the doctor must have believed in divine intervention because she strongly resisted the idea that Vit C could have had anything to do with her rapid recovery.


“I had been a practicing pediatric gastroenterologist for 25 years. During that time I watched some really beautiful children and young men and women die under my care because I had nothing more to offer, and unfortunately what I had offered many times only made their lives more miserable. …After reading Doctor Yourself by Dr. Andrew Saul, I have become a very angry man. I've just realized that for 25 years I had been making my patients sick and big pharma rich. I've just realized that those chronic hepatitis patients that died waiting for a liver transplant could have been easily cured with vitamin C. I realize now that my toximolecular medical education only led me to do more harm than good. That is not a good feeling to have. I only wish that all my critically ill patients had read Dr. Saul's book and fired their doctor. Doctor Yourself in fact has inspired me to now open an exclusive orthomolecular medicine practice for children and adults of all ages, and copies of the book will be in the waiting room for all to read. In the names of all those I didn't help before, I hope this time to make a difference.” ----(Edward Cichowicz, M.D.)


The pituitary and adrenal glands have one of the highest tissue concentrations of vitamin C. In healthy vitamin C producing animals pituitary ACTH and then adrenal cortisol production rises when stressed, and concurrently, vitamin C production, increasing serum vitamin C. A sufficiency of vitamin C enhances the production of ACTH, cortisol and adrenaline (epinephrine) so that the initial response to stress is improved.[...]

Among other benefits, increased cortisol and epinephrine allow more powerful punches or faster running from danger (fight or flight) and less inflammation if ill or injured. The production and release of large amounts of vitamin C concurrently or immediately following cortisol release rapidly reduces cortisol and epinephrine to within normal range, the pre-stressed state.In animals not producing vitamin C, or those with lower production due to aging, chronic stress may lead to reduction in body stores of vitamin C, exhaustion of epinephrine production and inappropriately elevated cortisol. This has great downsides.

Excess cortisol or inappropriately timed cortisol will slow healing and when dis-regulated contributes to anxiety and mood disorders, insulin resistance, obesity, metabolic syndrome, insomnia and fatigue. Excessive stress may eventually lead to low cortisol and adrenal exhaustion.

Animals... make their own vitamin C. The post stress production of abundant vitamin C and return of cortisol levels to unstressed ranges, restores tissue vitamin C to be ready for future stress. Humans also release vitamin C during stress but they must take from body stores and as tissue levels are depleted (no GLO) the ability to recover from stress is reduced and eventually lost.

If we do not make C and we do not take C, over time, we will use up all available body stores and find ourselves with inappropriately elevated cortisol and lower epinephrine production and eventually, if the low C/stress cycle continues, in full adrenal exhaustion, little cortisol production remaining. Vitamin C not only maintains and balances cortisol and epinephrine but, given in appropriate doses, restores normal epinephrine and cortisol production (recovery from the effects of chronic or acute stress including PTSD).

The current accepted treatment for cortisol imbalance/adrenal exhaustion, using adrenal supplements, ginseng, or even cortisol supplementation, all fail to replenish that one important, irreplaceable key to long term health, vitamin C.


the clinical literature showed getting enough calcium and vitamin D did NOT reverse bone loss. It did seem to decrease falls and fractures, not a bad thing. It was frustrating to realize D and calcium were not useful to prevent or cure osteoporosis or osteopenia. Clinical studies since that time further confirm while important to bone health D and calcium are not the primary key to healthy regeneration of BONES.

Now I know why. In 2010 a study from Baylor College of Medicine using the KO (gene knock out) mouse showed PROFOUND bone loss, rapid osteoporosis, when mice were stressed and adequate vitamin C became vitamin C deficiency (but NOT scurvy). Getting enough vitamin C throughout one's life, in addition to adequate vitamin D and minerals, may keep bones healthy and prevent hip fractures and the need for hip replacements. Even adding vitamin C later in life may prove to stop and even reverse bone loss.


Low ascorbate status is associated with gallstones and gallbladder disease.) Increasing vitamin C intake increases bile production, lowering bile saturation and improving absorption of the fat soluble vitamins and essential fatty acids. Vitamin C also decreases cholesterol by improving hydroxylation of cholesterol into hormone production and into bile acids.


Vitamin C plays a primary role in many hydroxylation reactions including vitamin D3 hydroxylation to the active 1,25(OH)2D and the conversion of l-tryptophan to 5-hydroxytryptophan, the precursor to serotonin. Other such key hydroxylations include that of cholesterol to pregnenolone and then to other hormones including cortisol, testosterone and progesterone, production of normal collagen, and production of carnitine necessary for muscle energy, fat metabolism and muscle strength.

Two of the early symptoms of scurvy are fatigue and depression. Researchers think it may have to do with a lack of carnitine.

In research guinea pigs, who like humans are unable to produce their own vitamin C, given 100 mg vitamin C, 5 mg vitamin C plus 10 mg carnitine, or 5 mg vitamin C (guinea pig RDA) only those given 5 mg vitamin C with 10 mg carnitine or 100 mg vitamin C alone improved carnitine production and only the 100 mg vitamin C group showed reduced triglycerides.(54) In human equivalents the 5 mg dose would be 750 mg daily (150 lb human), well above the current DRI; the carnitine equivalent, 1500 mg (150 lb human); the 100 mg vitamin C group would be equivalent to 15,000 mg (150 lb human). Carnitine allows us to burn FAT for ENERGY. Carnitine insufficiency contributes to fatigue, often profound.

Vitamin C also reduces histamine and has been used to ameliorate allergies, asthma, and histamine induced mood disorders.(55) Vitamin C dependent actions regarding increasing epinephrine, increasing 5-htp/serotonin, lowering histamine and optimizing levels of active vitamin D suggest an amazing variety of functions all related to feeling good. Abundant intake of Vitamin C and C rich foods might make our world much less stressed and happier.

Vitamin C will NOT work by itself. Vitamin C facilitates cell structure and function. Collagen production requires protein, as does carnitine production. Vitamin D requires either a supplement or sunlight. Your immune system needs zinc and protein (and many other things) plus vitamin C. Vitamin C makes what you eat, protein, carbohydrate, fatty acids, vitamins and minerals, work, PERIOD. When Linus Pauling and others described vitamin C they called it the HEALING factor. Healing, building, regenerating, vitamin C makes all elements and thereby bodies work better.


creates a vitamin C containing phospholipid particle that

1. Allows rapid and direct absorption from the small intestine into the liver and then into your blood.

2. Allows rapid absorption and delivery from the blood into body tissues, the ultimate bioavailability, intracellular delivery, including the mitochondria, endoplasmic reticulum, and even the nucleus of cells.

This improved delivery system not only increases the amount absorbed into blood and tissues, it allows for serum elevations of ascorbate equivalent to intravenous vitamin C.

When vitamin C is ingested in amounts greater than 500 mg about 19%-38% is actually absorbed so a capsule or tablet of 1,000 mg would provide about 190-380 mg to your body. It has to do with bowel kinetics. The higher the oral dose of vitamin C, whether ascorbic acid or sodium ascorbate or other mineral ascorbate) the lower the absorption percent; this is similar to what happens when you take calcium, at 250 mg 40% absorption, 2,000 mg 14% absorption (Heaney, see the Workbook).

Due to the phospholipid shell and small particle size liposomal vitamin C has absorption percentages ranging from 70-93% providing 700-930 mg per 1,000 mg of liposomal C, an increase of 50-75% more per equivalent ascorbic acid dose. And because the liposome does not increase water kinetics higher doses are not lost in the bowel (diarrhea).

Vitamin C has shown promise in cancer treatment when serum levels remain extremely high over a 24 hour multi-day (24/7) time period. This level has only been possible using thrice weekly high dose intravenous vitamin C. Studies show serum levels using oral liposomal C reach levels equal to those levels found to be effective in cancer treatment. This ability to reach higher serum levels of vitamin C is equally important if you have a chronic illness or degenerative disease whether heart disease, osteoporosis, degenerative disc disease or joint degeneration.


Vitamin C is not an element (like a mineral or protein or fatty acid) but a facilitator. Vitamin C makes everything work the way it was INTENDED to work. Giving vitamin C to mice bred to express Werner's Syndrome (early premature aging) completely reverses the syndrome. Vitamin C regulates both the creation of new bone and destruction of old bone promoting a healthy skeleton, young and old.

Serum C does not and will NOT reflect tissue levels. What tissues? Every tissue, every cell in your body, skin, muscle, bone, teeth, all organs, pituitary, adrenals, heart, kidney, liver, ovaries, testes, and your brain, contain and require vitamin C.

The last one tells the ingredients which suggests that people can make their own pretty much the same way the liposomal vitamin C is made. I wonder if it would be useful to make vitamin C and glutathione together? Especially for folks with leaky guts?


Also, there is a study that suggests that the liposomal version does cross the BBB.

Study did not say it ALWAYS happens just that under many conditions it will/can.

Although research has not clearly shown how the therapeutic agents in a liposome are actually released, there are a couple of theories. One theory suggests that the phospholipids are processed in the liver as fats and that this process releases the vitamin C. Another theory proposes that cells all over the body, hungry for phospholipid materials to repair cell membranes and other cellular structures, "steal" these materials from the liposome allowing their contents to leak out.


I decided this morning to see if the dehydroascorbic acid would make up in solution as well. If you recall, this form of vitamin c is the one that crosses the BBB very well and also goes directly into the mitochondria. See the following links for more info and also do some searching on your own:


Note - I wouldn't use that - pjg


A thing that can increase your tolerance to vitamin C by a LOT is food allergies. Any condition or disease were histamine is found in high levels will increase it too. According to the papers quoted, it can take months before your body's tissues get stocked up in their vitamin C content.

If you have adrenal fatigue, you will need a lot more and over several months as well before your adrenals get replenished. In fact, it might decrease the need for physiological cortisol therapy, or obviate it altogether. I'll do both for the time being.


Ascorbic acid plus sodium bicarbonate makes sodium ascorbate, not DHA.


I experimented with the sodium ascorbate version which allows for higher concentrations in the solution since you can dissolve more ascorbate in a given amount of water than pure ascorbic acid. That means I double the amount of ascorbic acid to 18 TBSPs and add 10 or 11 tsps of sodium bicarbonate to the Vitamin C mixture (incrementally) and stir and dissolve that until bubbling has stopped before I add it to the SAME proportion of lecithin, i.e. 3 cups water, 9 TBSP of lecithin.

You can't increase the vitamin C much over 3 TBSPs per cup of water and get it into solution without the bicarb. BUT the same amount of lecithin handles this doubled amount in ascorbate form quite well. The solution is rich and milky and never settles.

So, with ascorbic acid:

1 cup water, 3 TBSP acid form of vitamin C to 1 cup water and 3 TBSP of lecithin.

But with sodium ascorbate:

1 cup water, 6 TBSP vitamin C, 3 or 4 tsps of sodium bicarbonate added to 1 cup water with 3 TBSP dissolved lecithin.

As I said, I triple it every time and end up with 6 cups of product which takes about 25 minutes in the ultrasound chamber. I have found that I have to make this amount every other day to keep the supply available for everyone.

As I wrote earlier in this thread, I weighed a legal TBSP of vitamin C (level) and it was 10.67 grams. So that would be 32 actual grams of vitamin C per cup of water which is around 130 EFFECTIVE grams of vitamin C taken up by the liver.

BUT that amount is doubled in the sodium ascorbate variation to 64 actual grams of vitamin C per cup and well over 250 EFFECTIVE grams taken up by the liver. (Obviously, you only need a shot of this about two or three times a day!)


I tried an experiment recently in attempting to make liposomal magnesium in some form and want to report back on my results. First, I tried magnesium citrate powder; I used about a tablespoon for a cup of cold water, but the water remained cloudy (maybe I added too much, though I did mix it for a while) and it didn't end up becoming liposomal--it separated (and smelled a little weird).

The second time I tried using magnesium ascorbate powder, about 3 tablespoons, in a cup of hot water (attempting to better dissolve it after the first experiment); the water first turned blackish and then kind of reddish brown after mixing for a while, but looked basically dissolved otherwise, and it didn't become liposomal at all--it looked like it curdled the lecithin for some reason as there was reddish water and chunks of stuff.

I looked around online for a little while too to see if anyone had made or was selling liposomal magnesium in one form or another and couldn't find anyone doing either, so right now I'm not sure that it can be done.


I've also been taking it with liposomal glutathione to aid in detoxing my liver.


Interestingly, sugar in the body inhibits the uptake of vitamin C into cells. Both glucose and vitamin C bind the same receptors so they compete with one another. Glucose does not inhibit the uptake of DHA into cells, however.


The one thing all the papers talk about is how to increase stability of the liposomes to extend their half-life in the blood, so as to concentrate the delivery of drugs to the tissues that need it. Liposomes are quickly undergoing phagocytosis by macrophages, which means that the drug spills into blood, liver and spleen, but doesn't go to other tissues well. One way of stabilising liposomes is to attach polyethylene glycol (PEG) onto the outside membrane which hold off the cells that eat up the liposomes. The longer the PEG chain, the longer the liposome survives in the blood and is able to accumulate at other sites. As to the amount they say 5 - 8 mol% of lipid content (I haven't worked out yet to what amount of PEG that translates). The result would be to have more sustained levels of vitamin C in the blood and avoiding the troughs in between doses.

They talk mainly of iv administered liposomes, but I think by inference this might be applicable to oral formulations as well. I was thinking of experimenting with adding some PEG-4000 to my next batch of lipo C.


My blood tests are back and, as I suspected, my ferritin is quite high considering what the cutting edge experts consider to be healthiest.

I ordered some calcium EDTA and a book on chelation: So I'm going to be making some liposomal EDTA to help with the "unloading".


Polyglycerol polyricinoleate, or PGPR, is an artificial emulsifier that was granted GRAS status by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration in 2006. Since then, its use has grown substantially, primarily as a coating in candy and an inexpensive replacement for cocoa butter in chocolate manufacturing. Derived from castor oil, PGPR may be used safely as a substitute for soy lecithin. Due to the limited number of manufacturers producing PGPR, however, PGPR is not as readily available as other vegetable- and animal-derived lecithin substitutes.


Early symptoms of scurvy are malaise and lethargy. That’s basically a “general feeling of being unwell” along with tiredness or exhaustion.

After a few months comes shortness of breath and bone pain.

Further down the road is muscle pain, skin sores, gum disease, loose teeth, wounds not healing, dry mouth, dry eyes, and emotional problems.

In the late stages comes jaundice, edema, fever, convulsions, and eventually death.

Note that like any 'group of symptoms' not ALL of these must occur. It likely varies by person.


oooh good point:

I think you would expect higher tissue concentrations with higher blood concentrations, assuming that the C was traveling into the tissue. As an analogy, a diabetic with high blood sugar levels has lots of glucose in the blood, but the problem is the cells are not allowing it to enter. It could be because they are saturated, or it could be because they are resistant. But that brings us to the basic question, is the C concentration in the blood higher because the cells are full or is it because the cells are not accepting the C.


I also bought some d-ribose powder and plan to make that into a liposomal concoction.

Must dissolve in water or the effort is doomed. - pjg
Though I'm going to try some stuff in dmso. - pjg


My apologies; I neglected to outline the attendant, probable, variations in the protocol. What I SHOULD have said in my original post is "The visible, obviously homogenized, portion of the solution", whenever I made the comment about the stability of the completed, resultant, material.

I believe you will gain a little better knowledge of the results you achieved, after reading my most recent comment on an inquiry by Sheila.

Bottom line----your result was perfectly normal. Interestingly, the meniscus may present at the top...or the bottom.....or not at all. Usually if the initial material combination has not run long enough to incorporate a majority of the lecithin (or there is simply too much lecithin for the available ascorbic acid fraction.....the meniscus will form on the top of the sample....within a few minutes after stopping the US agitation.

If your procedure has run acceptably well and----long enough to homogenize well, any meniscus formation will, generally, present on the BOTTOM after overnight storage--- with or without refrigeration.

In any event, you are doing fine. If you do not want to consume the isolated lecithin fraction you are observing, just decant the homogenized liposome solution and dispose of the isolated lecithin fraction.

I hope this information helps your dilema.

Sincerely, Brooks Bradley.

p.s. One just needs to continue to experiment "around-the-edges" of this protocol, in order to achieve optimum results. Do not be reluctant to do such...this IS NOT ROCKET SCIENCE....just common sense.


....by just increasing the water volume and reactivating the US Cleaner for several minutes....the remaining lecithin will (in almost all cases) go into the emulsified solution. However, bear in mind, you have diluted the entire solution by an equivalent strength-----with NO increase in total vitamin C component.

Bradley is the guy who came up with the DIY liposomal C idea and made it public on the internet -- Palyne


Although not scientifically rigorous, I offer a simple test which will yield the DIY researcher some element of confidence that they do, in fact, have a useful measure of liposomal encapsulate.

First, pour about 4 ounces of your finished Vitamin C encapsulate into a cylindrical, 12 ounce water glass. Next, place 1/4 teaspoon of sodium bicarbonate into about 1 ounce of distilled water and stir for 3 to 5 seconds.

Next, pour the sodium bicarbonate solution into the Vitamin C mixture and stir gently for several seconds. Note: If the foam/bubble line which forms on top is 1/2 inch or less---in height---you have about a 50% encapsulation efficiency. If the foam/bubble line is 3/8 of one inch...or less, you have about a 60% efficiency.

If the foam/bubble line is 1/8 inch or less, you have about 75% efficiency. If the foam/bubble line is just a trace.....you should major in chemistry.

The percentages given above, represent the amount of the total Vitamin C component incorporated during the encapsulation process.....that was actually encapsulated. The less encapsulation....the greater the foaming.

What is, actually, occurring in this test is that the ascorbic acid fraction is being transformed into the sodium ascorbate form of vitamin C. This test does not negatively affect the usefulness of the solution you have tested.....as the isolated Vitamin C component is not adversely affecting the encapsulate (which is being protected by the lecithin bubble-covering.) Actually, the sodium ascorbate form of vitamin C is greater than an order-of-magnitude more soluble for tissue incorporation......than is the ascorbic acid form.

In any event this simple test should serve to raise the level of confidence in the DIY researcher.... that they do---in fact---have a useful measure of encapsulated vitamin C.

Sincerely, Brooks Bradley.

p.s. I had, a few moments ago, just finished a much more extensive posting.....but some form of invasive advertising spam flashed across the top of my mail system and in attempting to circumvent/nullify the invader I lost my entire post.

The actual post your are receiving is the product of my existing dismay. --

Bradley later apologized that there are variables in performing the above process which make it fairly inaccurate (sometimes) for measure and hence is not a good way to evaluate it. He suggested whether it falls out of solution is one clue. pjg


I actually heat up the 1.5 cup distilled water to pre-boil temps. Once it starts to get those boiling bubbles (the begining stages), I turn off the water, pour straight into a mixer with the lecithin, and mix it for a good 10 minutes. Then i refrigerate the mixture overnight.

Next day, I mix the lecithin/water mix again in a mixer for 5 mins, add the .5 Vit C water, mic for another 5 mins, then straight into sonicator. The Sonicator heats up pretty good at around the 15 min mark, so at 15 mins, I stop, empty the mix into a pyrex measuring cup, refrigerate to cool it back down, and 30-40 mins later, do the other 15 mins in sonicator.

Works every time


I am using the larger 160 watt harbor freight US unit for these experiments. I did finally get a chance to use the granular lecithin, and it is MUCH less messy than the liquid form. Much more highly recommended just from the stand point of clean up. That being said, the final product did not seem to be any different than from when I used the liquid lecithin.

some people talked about the lipo-c dramatically reducing niacin flush. still working on why that might be.

As I already noted, I get quite strong flushes while increasing Niacin. Usually I feel intense heat and tingling sensations mainly in my head and in the upper body; my arms, throad and sometimes more parts of my body turn red, and I get some strange pressure in my ears - which usually all eases after 20 minutes. Titrating upto 45 grams of Vit C to my bowel tolerance for more than 2 weeks didn't change anything about that. But since I started to add the 12 gram of self-made lypo-C mixtures Niacin flushes have completely ceased if taken after the lypo-C. And are much more milder if taken a half day apart. To me this is a really big change to regular oral ascorbic acid.


Dr. Donsbach is talking about lecithin as a phospholipid liposome carrier and raising temperature to 110 degrees to open them up.


I've used the one pint UC to make Lypo C and liked it so well that I bought and have used the larger 2.5L unit. I've made homemade Lypo C in the large unit by:

1. Using a blender I dissolved six tablespoons lecithin in two cups of water. Dissolve two tablespoons of ascorbate in one cup of water in a separate container. Pour the water/ascorbate solution into the blender with water/lecithin and turn on blender for a few seconds. Pour blender contents (water/lecithin/ascorbate) into the 2.5L UC.

2. Repeat Step 1 twice. In the UC are now nine cups of water, six tablespoons ascorbate and 18 tablespoons of lecithin. The UC is now full of the mixture.

3. Run UC for a total of 30 minutes without heating.

You now have nine cups of Lypo C solution.


Brooks Bradley used a scanning electron microscope to view the liposomes.
He also believed the Sodium Ascorbate to far superior in absorbtion to AA.


take some water,add some lecithin and liposomes are created.

Sonify to break them down to nano size.

The proof of encapsulation (Liposome) is in anyone who has made it with AA and performed the baking soda test.

Only question is are they below the required 200 nanometer size?

According to Brooks Bradly who viewed them with a scanning electron microscope they are.


Both liposome and glyco-poly-L-lysine (G-PLL) are often used as carriers to deliver exogenous genes to the liver in gene therapy experiments.


L-Carnatine, and Acytle-L-Carnatine. Is one of the main amino acids that helps facilitate the manufacture of GSH -- especially in combination with a-Lipoic Acid. Also Selenium.


I use an ultrasonic cleaner, yes. I wore out the first one I used, a Harbor Freight (the low cost one most often mentioned for this use) and now have a slightly more expensive model CD-7810 (sold under several names, but same model number) that I am quite happy with so far. So far as I know, there is no other practical way to make small batches of liposomal Vitamin C (or liposomal glutathione) for personal use. One can buy the ready made, but (1) it's rather expensive and (2) they have to add preservatives to it to get a shelf life sufficient for retail trade.


However, this same doctor thought up a liposomal vitamin C recipe that he thought would be superior to the soy or sunflower lecithin recipes. I'm going to try it. It probably won't be tasty, however. Here's his comment (note: FSO is "flax seed oil". I get unfiltered, refrigerated. If you want to leave that out, then adjust with equivalent amount of Omnicholine):

I recommended using phosphatidylcholine (Omnicholine), because it has a ratio of types of phosphatidylcholine that will contribute a much more powerful benefit to cell membranes (especially those in brain and immune cells) than lecithin. Two tablespoons of Omnicholine (about 10 caps) + 2 T FSO, 2 caps 400 IU vitamin E. Dissolve 5 grams of ascorbic acid in that.


If you need to get results more quickly, I found you can take a low dose every hour using a kitchen timer. Then you can go on to 2-3 times a day dosing. I recommend taking a probiotic at least once a day, depending on the state of your gut flora. Do not take lipo C for 2 hours before and 2 hours after taking the probiotic.


For a hangover - Taking 1,000mg daily in the week before a booze-up reduces stress on the liver. If you're drunk and want to look sober, a large dose of vitamin C will prevent drunken behaviour, according to a 1986 study, "Alcohol and Alcoholism".[/quote]


I was involved in supplying the US National Weight Lifting Team with vitamin C in an internal study looking at how vitamin C affected cortisol. 1,000 mg of vitamin C reduced cortisol production by ~20%. It was concluded that vitamin C's antioxidant/anti-inflammatory effect rendered less need to produce cortisol, which is also an antioxidant. Thus, cortisol production by the body was decreased because the feedback loop that controls cortisol sensed less need for cortisol's antioxidant/anti-inflammatory effect.


Dehydroascorbic acid has been used as a vitamin C dietary supplement.[8]

As a cosmetic ingredient, dehydroascorbic acid is used to enhance the appearance of the skin.[9] It may be used in a process for permanent waving of hair[10] and in a process for sunless tanning of skin.[11]

In a cell culture growth medium, dehydroascorbic acid has been used to assure the uptake of vitamin C into cell types that do not contain ascorbic acid transporters.[12]

As a pharmaceutical agent, some research has suggested that administration of dehydroascorbic acid may confer protection from neuronal injury following an ischemic stroke.[7] The literature contains many reports on the antiviral effects of vitamin C,[13] and one study suggests dehydroascorbic acid has stronger antiviral effects and a different mechanism of action than ascorbic acid.[14] Solutions in water containing ascorbic acid and copper ions and/or peroxide, resulting in rapid oxidation of ascorbic acid to dehydroascorbic acid, have been shown to possess powerful but short-lived antimicrobial, antifungal, and antiviral properties, and have been used to treat gingivitis, periodontal disease, and dental plaque.[15][16] A pharmaceutical product named Ascoxal is an example of such a solution used as a mouth rinse as an oral mucolytic and prophylactic agent against gingivitis.[16][17] Ascoxal solution has also been tested with positive results as a treatment for recurrent mucocutaneous herpes,[17] and as a mucolytic agent in acute and chronic pulmonary disease such as emphysema, bronchitis and asthma by aerosol inhalation.


pjg - my notes - I've found so many interesting things. Like:

* You can get way more ascorbic acid dissolved into water if you ALSO add sodium bicarbonate. (Though I won't be doing this. I don't know that you can do this and still encapsulate it properly.)

* You can get way WAY more ascorbic acid dissolved into water if you put strong magnets on each side of the glass of water for 24-48 hours first. (Really. Mind blown. Must try.)

* If you combine hydrogen peroxide with ascorbic acid allegedly you get DHA.

* DHA crosses the BBB.

* This is also said for DMSO btw: http://www.pnas.org/content/98/20/11720 major helpful if you get a bunch into/on a person just after a stroke. Probably for the same reason, because they are such intense free radical cleanup agents.

notes to self

Dehydroascorbic acid
Molecular formula C6H6O6
Molar mass 174.11 g mol-1

Ascorbic acid
Molecular formula C6H8O6
Molar mass 176.12 g mol-1

Sodium Bicarbonate
Molecular formula NaHCO3
Molar mass 84.007 g mol-1

Hydrogen Peroxide
Molecular formula 2(HO) or (H2O2)
Molar mass 34.0147 g/mol

How to blow up your home lab: It creates volatile compounds when mixed with glucose and amino acids in 90 °C.

Ascorbic acid is special because it can transfer a single electron, owing to the stability of its own radical ion called "semidehydroascorbate", dehydroascorbate. The net reaction is:

RO • + C6H7O6- ? ROH + C6H6O6• -

The oxidized forms of ascorbate are relatively unreactive, and do not cause cellular damage.

So I think... h202 with asc acid would be the c6h706 which is then changed back with ROH but I'm trying to figure out the rest.

I wish I knew more about chemistry. I find it so fascinating.


In 1959, the biochemist John J. Burns showed that scurvy resulted from the absence of the enzyme L-gulonolactone oxidase (GLO) in the human liver.[22] GLO is the last enzyme in the series of four used by the mammals to convert blood sugar (glucose) into ascorbic acid. In the absence of GLO, this important synthesis is halted, and the potential for scurvy plagues Homo sapiens.


A year after Burn's crucial discovery, my wife and I were involved in an accident that nearly cost us our lives. The accident was serendipitous in that it provided insights into human physiology in the scurvy-free condition.

The experiment began when a drunken driver crashed her car head-on into mine on a South Dakota highway. My wife and I were severely injured; no accident victim with injuries as severe as ours had survived at the hospital to which we were transported. The emergency room doctors and nurses did not expect me to survive the first night. They could not understand why my wife and I were conscious and lucid, and not in a state of deep shock from the trauma, severe bone injuries, and blood loss.

Since the 1930s we had been taking on a regular basis gradually increasing megadoses of ascorbate. By 1960 our dose was up to 5 to 10 g daily, or more if we were under heavy stress. One of the physiological effects of megadoses of ascorbate is the prevention of shock, the physiological response that kills the severely injured accident victims.

Our bodies were scurvy-free, and we tried to remain scurvy-free during our 2 3/4 month hospital stay by taking about 60 g of ascorbate daily. The hospital had never had patients like us before. From the start we began disproving all the medical prognostications based on scorbutic patients. Our physiology was more robust than that of the usual scorbutic hospital population. I healed so rapidly that I was able to walk out of the hospital on the broken legs that doctors had said could not bear my weight for at least a year. I have no doubt that without ascorbate, our lives would have ended on the night of the accident.

I also made the observation that patients entering a hospital do not necessarily die of the disease for which they entered. Scurvy is so rife in hospitals that it is probably involved in every hospital death. Subclinical scurvy is rampant not only among patients, but among doctors, nurses, and other individuals who limit their ascorbate intake to 60 mg daily. Tests on the urinary spillover of ascorbate establish the correctness of this observation.*

Four and a half months after the accident, I returned to work, convinced of the necessity of immediate publication of my work on the genetics of scurvy. I found out, the hard way, that it was much easier to conduct the research and write the paper that it was to have it published in an orthodox medical journal. I went through the routine of submitting the manuscript and having it rejected by six medical journals before it was finally published in 1966.[1]


Vitamin C May Offer Potential Life-Saving Treatment for Sepsis
Nov. 18, 2010 — Physicians caring for patients with sepsis may soon have a new safe and cost-effective treatment for this life-threatening illness. Research led by Dr. Karel Tyml and his colleagues at The University of Western Ontario and Lawson Health Research Institute have found that vitamin C can not only prevent the onset of sepsis, but can reverse the disease.


DHA competes with glucose for transport into cells, and so the amount of DHA that is absorbed depends on the concentration of glucose in the blood. This may cause a person who consumes so much sugar that he or she has too much glucose in the blood to have cellular deficiency of vitamin C, at least in terms of supplying the mitochondria with vitamin C.


Today's reading was a little more on lipospheric encapsulation and then on the effect of magnetics on liquids such as water and iodine.

You can do your own experiment using strong neodymium magnets on water and watering something that grows super fast and measurably like bean sprouts. One repeated experiment that was describe online found the following, using 4 magnets to surround a tube/jar of water which then watered the sprouts:

SSSS had the fastest and highest growth but the stalks were not strong enough to support it. (leggy, in the words of seedling gardeners.)

NNNN had the slowest growth and was shorter but the stalks were very strong.

NSNS and NNSS configuration of magnets as well as a blend of separate waters from NNNN and SSSS magnets, all had about the same speed and height of growth with strong enough stalks. The NNSS was just slightly taller.

What was never made clear was whether this was their direction on the band they used -- meaning half would be facing the opposite direction when the band was wrapped around a tube! -- or what.


pjg - There was an account I think I posted a year or two ago from a doc who had treated a man (Canadian) who turned out to be a POW survivor. He went on to treat a bunch of POWs both in Canada and in the USA. They had been so profoundly deficient for 1+++ years. The man he first met was so messed up from arthiritis and more, he couldn't lift his arms above his head, was in chronic terrible pain, and more. With megadosing of vitamin B3 (Niacin) he actually completely resolved. The doc wrote, about treating the POWs:

Quote: There is an important lesson from the experiences of these veterans and their response to megadoses of nicotinic acid. This is that every human exposed to severe stress and malnutrition for a long enough period of time will develop a permanent need for large amounts of this vitamin and perhaps for several others.

pjg - I think it is probably the case that many of who have been malnutritioned most of our lives probably need a vastly larger amount more of many basic nutrients than someone who hasn't had that experience -- and even moreso if the person in question is very large.


The Hickey/Roberts Dynamic Flow theory predicts that taking vitamin C every four hours will produce the highest sustained blood concentrations. Take more before bedtime.


Linus Pauling specifically recommended high, generally equal oral doses of vitamin C and the amino acid lysine between 5,000 and 6,000 mg in his Unified Theory lecture (available on video). Anything less, by definition, is not the Linus Pauling Therapy.


Note that proline is also added by matthius rath I think his name is, now, who worked with Pauling

pjg - This is the amino breakdown from my beef kosher collagen hydrolysate. But it does seem that it has the sorts of proteins desired.

Quote: (averages) AMINO ACID PROFILE % (GMS / 100 GMS PROTEIN)
Glycine 29.0
Proline 17.6
Hydroxyproline 14.5
Glutamic Acid 11.4
Alanine 11.0
Arginine 9.3
Aspartic Acid 6.7
Lysine 4.7
Serine 3.8
Leucine 3.4
Valine 3.3
Phenylanlanine 2.6
Threonine 2.2
Isoleucine 1.8
Hydroxylysine 1.2
Histidine 1.0
Methionine 1.0
Tyrosine 1.0
Cystine 0.1
Tryptophane 0


Sugar (all forms) depresses vitamin C stores. The highest concentration of Vitamin C in the body is in the adrenal glands, and chronic vitamin C deficiency leads to adrenal exhaustion.

With prolonged adrenal deficiency, there is a deficiency of endogenous (body-produced) cortisone. Rheumatoid arthritis is the end result of this prolonged attack of sugar on the adrenal glands.

Note: Dr. Reams said sugar is converted to alcohols by the liver and drives calciums out of the liver and that this is its major damage. pjg


Oh look. So what Klenner documented and even published between the 40s and the 70s -- that along with nearly every other deadly illness, ascorbic acid CURES tuberculosis -- was just "discovered" although only in vitro so far.

12:06 am | Wednesday, May 22nd, 2013 PARIS -
Scientists said Tuesday they had managed to kill lab-grown tuberculosis (TB) bacteria with good old Vitamin C - an "unexpected" discovery they hope will lead to better, cheaper drugs.

Imagine if scientists actually caught up with science. - pjg


from a research study my friend quoted: Ascorbic acid inhibited the growth of pathogenic intestinal flora and reduced the pathogenic and relatively pathogenic bacteria count in the gastrointestinal tract and notably contributed to enhanced growth of beneficial bacteria.


Swallowing vitamin C will increase levels of the super-antioxidant, glutathione, in our blood by almost 50%.


This is interesting. Discussing ascorbic acid made into a paste with water (or occasionally dissolved in dmso) and used on cancerous skin lesions. Plenty of success stories including biopsy followups.

Quote: As far as the "when to stop" question, that's a big question mark around here for almost all treatments. Lots of varying opinions. One thing you might use the search function for are the posts by Dan, the founder of this forum, on the topic of "orange oil." It has some good reports as a treatment but, even more interesting, it seems to act as a reliable indicator for the presence of BCC. You can put orange oil on a gaping cut or other skin abrasion and you won't feel a thing. Apply a few drops anywhere there are abnormal cells like basal cell skin cancer, however, and after a few minutes you feel a noticeable stinging that lasts about 20 minutes. It penetrates very deep, too. Therefore it might be used as a tool after treatment to determine if you've wiped out all the BCC. Theoretically, no sting = no cancer. This may or may not be 100% and no scientific tests that I'm aware of have ever been done to confirm this. (I'm sure a dermatologist would boot you out of the office for even asking about it!) So do your own research + draw your own conclusions. As for me, if I don't feel any sting response with orange oil after a course of treatment using Vitamin C or petty spurge, I'm inclined to say "finished" and just let it heal up. You can always hit it again if it recurs. Orange oil is available at health food stores or at places like Whole Foods Market in little bottles for about $3.00. I think Dan mentions some other sources or commercial products that contain it, too.


Comments on a forum about Lipospheric C

* I've been taking this since last summer. I don't ever want to stop taking this. It has changed my life. I'm 51 and have more energy and have not been sick one day since taking it.

* I'm a Woman, 62 years old. No diagnosis of any serious disease. At my ideal weight, with the help of L-C at the beginning. Over the past year, not one single cold, flu, illness going around my community, has in any way afflicted me. It's like it made me invisible to germs or whatever it was that made other people sick. Another quirk of taking L-C has been something I could judge over a longer period of time, so now the report on it. My hair I have always worn long, usually to the middle of my back, so I know how long it takes to grow over time. My hair growth has jumped into overtime mode this past year. What used to take 4 months to grow in length now takes about 2 months. I just cut off another 5 inches last week, as it was down to my butt, and I didn't know how that happened so darn fast! Plus, it's much much thicker too. As a side note, nails are in fast grow mode and nice and healthy, I find myself needing to file and trim them much more often.

* For the record, this concoction tastes pretty gross and has a very long aftertaste. I'd plan on having something to wash it down with or mix it with something else. But my wife is feeling better, so apparently it works.


Because of its ability to strengthen collagen, vitamin C may also help prevent brain hemorrhages, especially in newborns and the elderly. I have always thought that vitamin C should be administered to patients with cerebralaneurysms (ballooning of a blood vessel in thebrain) to strengthen their vessels and prevent further aneurysms.

Collagen is also important for the formation of the lining (myelin sheath) around nerves. Studies on the effect of vitamin C on myelin demonstrate that high doses stimulate myelin formation and differentiation of schwann cells, which protect the neurons of the peripheral nervous system. This may explain why some multiple sclerosis patients who are treated with high-dose intravenous vitamin C experience dramatic improvements.

The vitamin C level in the brain is four times higher than the blood, and during times of vitamin C deficiency, the brain holds onto its vitamin C very tightly. Both of these facts underscore how important this nutrient is to the health and functioning of the brain. In fact, in certain areas of the brain that have particularly high activity — such as the hippocampus, the hypothalamus, and the striatum — levels of vitamin C are very high.

Interestingly, vitamin C has been shown to enhance maturation of the synapse (the connection between two brain cells), which is something not done by other antioxidants. This all means that vitamin C is important to how the brain forms and develops. Because of the high level of vitamin C in the substantia nigra (a midbrain structure that controls movement, among other things) and striatum (part of the basal ganglia, which also governs movement), it may be that vitamin C is involved in Parkinson’s disease. Vitamin C is also an inhibitor of the enzyme that destroys acetylcholine (acetylcholinesterase) and therefore may also play a role in Alzheimer’s disease. The brains of people with Alzheimer’s have deficient levels of vitamin C. Vitamin C has been shown to reverse certain types of memory loss in mouse models of Alzheimer’s dementia.

Lecithin and Vitamin C work hand in hand. They are very good partners.


I may add to these notes at times. - PJ

Constant caveat: I am not a scientist. For "real science" you should read articles by people with academic credentials, of which I have none.

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